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In this episode, I am joined by Sara-Louise Ackrill and Bontle Senne to discuss their upcoming book, "ND Lovers Club: How Neurodiverse Women Lust, Like, and Love."
The conversation delves into the inspiration behind the book, the unique experiences of neurodiverse women in relationships, and the practical solutions offered to navigate dating and relationships for neurodivergent women.
Sara-Louise and Bontle share their personal journeys and insights, highlighting the importance of understanding and celebrating neurodiversity.
They also debunk common myths about neurodiverse women in relationships and emphasize the need for acceptance and understanding.
More than a book, Bontle and Sara-Louise are starting a movement. One that fosters a sense of community and support for neurodiverse people who love and for those that love them.
If you love this episode, Rate and Review us on iTunes
Meet our guests:
Bontle Senne & Sara Louise-Ackrill
Bontle Senne is a powerhouse transformation expert, author, and speaker with a track record of shaking things up across industries. She brings her no-nonsense approach and personal ND journey to this book, creating a voice that is both relatable and razor-sharp.
Sara-Louise Ackrill is a therapist and entrepreneur known for her wit, warmth, and passion for helping ND people thrive. As a self-proclaimed neurodiversity evangelist, she combines personal insights with professional expertise to deliver a book that’s equal parts inspiring and practical.
They also have their own website Built to Diverge.
You can also connect with Bontle & Sara-Louise via LinkedIn.
Meet your host:
Andrea Balboni
Andrea is a certified Sex, Love and Relationships Coach at Lush Coaching.
Her mission is to help people experience as much pleasure and fulfilment in their personal intimate lives as they desire.
From finding love naturally and easily, to deepening connection and resolving conflict, to keeping passion alive over the long-term, I support individuals and couples in all phases of intimate relationships.
Work with me - Book a 30 minute consultation call and learn how coaching with me can help.
Or send me a message here and let’s begin the conversation.
Let’s continue the conversation
Neurodivergent Lust and Love with Bontle Senne & Sara-Louise Ackrill
Andrea: [00:00:00] Hello and welcome to Lush Love, the podcast. I'm your host, Andrea Balboni. Through conversations with special guests, we'll navigate the intensity of intimacy, the highs and lows of relationships, and the beauty and complexity of the erotic, desire and pleasure.
I'll guide you through embodiment practices and meditations in special episodes that will bring to life and make real what you learn from conversations with thought leaders, teachers, and guide of all kinds. My goal is to support you, to experience intimate relationships in the way that you desire, so that you feel nourished by deep, meaningful connection, by passion and pleasure.
I'm so [00:01:00] glad you're here with me on this journey. And if you are to rate and review this episode, if you feel the same.
I am here today with Sara-Louise Ackrill and Bontle Senne. Ooh, I think I said that with an Italian accent. I am so excited to have these two incredible women here with me in conversation in anticipation of their book that is coming out just in time for the month of love.
The book's title is ND Lovers Club, the how neurodiverse women lust, like, and love. This is proving to be a powerhouse of a book, a beautiful, gorgeous manual into all things lust, liking, and loving. And so I am so honored to have you both [00:02:00] with us today. Thank you for being here with me.
Sara-Louise: Thank you.
Bontle: Thanks for having us.
Andrea: I would love to know what inspired you to write this book. What, where does the inspiration for this come from? Bontle, if you could start.
Bontle: I think that a large portion of the inspiration for this book came from just feeling like I was a disaster at love, any form of relationship, in any sort of functional sense, even at sex, all of this seemed to be something that everybody else got a manual to understand how to adult in these ways, and I felt like I didn't, and meeting more neurodivergent women who are ADHD or autistic, OCD, really helped me understand that there is nothing broken about the way that we approach these.
We're just different and that differentness is something to celebrate rather than be concerned about. Uh, so this was, uh, what made me absolutely want to write this book.
Andrea: Amazing. [00:03:00] Yes. Sara-Louise, what about for you?
Sara-Louise: Well, for me, uh, I wanted to write a book about emotional pain to start with. Um, so I wasn't as specific as Bontle had already envisioned in her mind for her book.
And she got in touch with me, we had met prior. And she heard me talking about a book that I was planning to write and had started, but characteristically had got really busy and had put it down. And I was kind of like, you know what, this is very similar to what I'm writing, although I haven't really framed it as relationships.
And then we decided to write together, but it equally comes from a lot of personal experience. And yeah, I realized over time that the emotional pain, as it were, was coming from datings. At that point, I was. back out there dating. And it was just really resonating day to day. And it was very kind of, um, front and center in my mind. And it was just perfect timing.
Andrea: Amazing. What a beautiful coming together. And I would just love to hear from, uh, from the [00:04:00] both of you, how you feel love, lust, and liking is different for people, for women, especially, particularly who are neurodiverse compared to people who are, um, who are not, how does that show up exactly? Um, and maybe Bontle, if you want to start again.
Bontle: Sure. I think that one of the important things for me is first a recognition that one of the most, uh, frustrating parts of how this shows up is that neurodivergent women don't often understand why they're behaving the way they're behaving. So they often don't have a full sense of, why do I fall in love so quickly and so dramatically?
Why does every single rejection or every single slight feel like the end of the world? Why do I go through these periods of either hypersexuality, where all I want to do is, you know, jump someone like there's a sex demon in [00:05:00] me, periods of just, I don't want anything to do with this. Why do I prefer ethical non-monogamy?
Why am I interested in polyamorous situations? Why is my sexuality so fluid? All of those questions, of course, all women experience, or people experience for that matter. But for neurotypical people, I feel that there are more answers readily available. There are more sources of information, more research that's being done.
Whereas for a neurodivergent woman, unless you can find a community of people and suddenly go, oh, you also experienced that. It's really difficult to be able to contextualize some of those ways that you experienced those things. And so you're just left with the sense of. I have no idea what's going on. And so that must mean there's something wrong with me.
Sara-Louise: Yeah, for sure. I think, um, we have a big issue with limerence or what we tend to call more often infatuation in the neurodiversity community. So young, uh, female ADHDers, for example, tend to really struggle with limerence. [00:06:00] Um, we tend to have hyper fixation on, it can be on a subject, like it can be on a person, maybe more on the autistic side, although hyper focus comes under both and lots of us are both, we’re both AuDHDers.
Um, but I would say, um, yeah, I think limerence is a big deal, although we don't seem to talk about it as much. And I think we can really sell soothe as if it's an addiction like any other. And I definitely used, um, attraction, uh, when I was really, really young. to kind of self soothe through really difficult times and mental health challenges.
Um, and I think that because we tend to have complex trauma, we tend to cut off from our bodies. So we become quite desensitized and we can put up with a lot of behavior and abuse that maybe neurotypical person might be more quick to identify, um, because we're so disconnected very often from our bodies.
Um, so we're far more likely to be victims of abuse and domestic abuse, for example. [00:07:00] And I think another thing I'd like to mention is we are in a very sexualized world, and I feel like on the neurodiversity side, we tend to maybe not buy into the material and the societal expectations, so we tend to dress for sensory needs and comfort.
Um, I'm not saying we don't want to be attractive, or we don't want to be a bit sexy, but I've always felt infantilized that, you know, I have autistic collagen, my ankles are a bit dodgy and weak, so I can't wear heels. Just simple things like that, being in flats, it doesn't feel particularly hot, um, it makes me feel infantilized, and um, you know, I, I didn't get interested in clothes and fashion.
I didn't have a clue what suited me for a long time. I think as a young girl, I dressed in my mum's cast offs because I wanted to look grown up. So there's that thing about being an old soul, but being too emotionally immature. And then I think it's quite hard to be attracted to someone who doesn't really know whether they're really young or really old.
And, um, yeah, there's, there's so many things we could literally talk about that bit all day, I think. [00:08:00]
Andrea: And it's, I'm going to guess that your book is covering or helping people uncover some of these things,
Sara-Louise: Yep!
Andrea: if they can unwind or unravel them and also offer some solutions, some practical solutions and some ways to navigate through.
So I was wondering if you could share some of the practical, tactical ways that you have covered in the book that you're hoping will, will support people who are, who are struggling. Because it sounds like I'm hearing a lot of really deep emotional wounding, like pain, um, and a lot of struggle and just us not really sure how to navigate or which way to go or what sources might be out there.
It sounds like there's a lack of, and so I am even more thrilled that your book is coming out and that it isn't, it’s at once meeting people where they're at, so understanding where people [00:09:00] are at and also helping them navigate it and also helping with some practical solutions. So I was wondering if you could speak to that a bit, maybe. Yeah.
Bontle: I 100 percent want to start with that, because I think one of the things which we haven't seen in a lot of these books because both Sarah and I find self health books a little bit, uh, underwhelming, quite boring generally. So we also wanted to try something that had humor and that reflected kind of the absurdity of some of this, right?
And so our solutions are also couched in that, right? So when we talk about limerence, it's about how to prevent yourself from accidentally being a stalker.
Sara-Louise: Yeah!
Bontle: Uh, when we talk about the fact that sometimes a solution to your own judgment about your sexual behavior is to accept that and to understand what that's about.
You know, emotional support deck, like emotional support pets are definitely a thing. Uh, and we in the book try to focus on that kind of [00:10:00] humorous way of putting it rather than you're doing something wrong. So a big one that Sara put in was, don't drink so much on dates. Because while other people may be drinking because they're a bit nervous, or whatever, someone who is neurodivergent might have a whole story that's going on in their minds about drinking, uh, making them more able to reach social cues, which is exactly the opposite.
It might force them to overshare. It might make them, uh, contrive or imagine a connection with a person that doesn't exist. So we talk a lot about being able to identify some of these green and red flags in yourself and others, and what some of the signs of those might be. We talk a lot about, you know, here's this thing, it's actually totally fine, don't worry about it.
Um, and we also have quite a lot, I think, about, uh, when you are engaging with people who think they're doing you a favor for dating you. The real answer [00:11:00] to this is to, you know, uh, advocate for yourself, and it's okay to not believe that you are some sort of charity case or, you know, you're stuck in an episode of Big Bang Theory or Love on the Spectrum.
Sara-Louise: The whole spectrum, yeah.
Bontle: Which is our worst, by the way. Um, and, you know, that I think is helpful in of itself, as well as, to be fair, the idea that we want to show ways to function as an adult, because a lot of the books, a lot of the readings, et cetera, that exist are all about children. It's about parents and how they deal with their children.
It's about getting your teens through school, et cetera. We don't talk very much about being an adult. And so in people's mind, they're going, oh, you're autistic. You don't have sex, right? And so just being able to say, you do have sex, but please remember sensory needs, it's okay to have the lights lowered, it's okay to, you know, prioritize your physical comfort because it's not just a preference.
You know, this is something that will really impact you very negatively if you continue to mask [00:12:00] and pretend that everything's cool.
Andrea: Hmm. Great. Thank you. Sara-Louise, do you want to add to that?
Sara-Louise: Yes, except I can't remember the question.
Andrea: That's okay. I'm going to just kind of riff off of it, if that's okay.
Bontle: Go ahead.
Andrea: And then we'll just go.
Bontle: It's hard to go next.
Sara-Louise: This has happened to me before. This is so ADHD. I'm sorry.
Andrea: That's perfect. You're, you're, you know, I feel like what Bontle was speaking to, which I'm, I'm attempting to do now, is normalize. Like, it's okay that you're experiencing things the way that you are, in the sense that you're not the only one.
Sara-Louise: Yeah, we definitely, um, we created a safe space, I think, in creating the book that didn't exist. And Bontle and I both learned a lot about ourselves by being around other neurodivergent women, as she was saying at the beginning. And I think that a lot of people haven't yet got their tribe. And I really do feel that, um, in a, in, in the best possible way, we can be a tribe for someone.
I do feel [00:13:00] that there's a sense when you read the book of, I found those two decent people who, you know, they're quite clued up and they care. And here's a space that having a book on this topic opens up that, you know, was previously not available because there was literally nothing out there. So I feel like we're a good like starter pack until you find your own maybe like real life people or online people because I think online connections are very valid.
Um, so there's definitely the whole, um, here's a space to think about who you are and there's a big message in the book about doing things differently. I'm not following the Hollywood ideal because actually a lot of neurotypical people find it quite arbitrary. Like, you know, why, why go to a cinema and hold someone's hand if that doesn't feel natural?
Um, I, when you mentioned Love on a Spectrum, I was thinking, actually, I really like the American one because the coach was teaching them to date neuro, in a neurodivergent way. Whereas in Australia, the coach was teaching them to repeat these rituals that neurotypical people were doing, like, you know, decades ago, [00:14:00] like going to a restaurant and pulling out the other person's chair.
I mean, nobody does that, let alone us. So, um, we kind of say, you know, don't get feeling that these things you've internalized are the only way of being sexy or normal or attractive. Um, and there's a lot of freedom in that. So there's a lot of relating, I think. I think there's a lot of relatability and I do think that's quite powerful.
Um, but there's also more specific suggestions. Um, we cover things like attachment styles, and I think we give quite a good rundown, a few analogies that are quite easy to remember. Um, and maybe information people will be kind of familiar with, but presented in a way that I think might hit home a bit more than resources we have currently.
Andrea: Perfect. Yeah. What I love is that you're opening up a wider space for what is what I love to do in the work that I do as a sex and relationship coach, which is you get to design and create the [00:15:00] relationship that you want. You have all of the creative wisdom within you and you know what feels good and what doesn't.
You know, what may not, when you kind of paste it up against the Hollywood version or the textbook version or the girl next door version, isn't, it's not quite that. So you're like, so we get asked so much, is it normal? Is it okay that I want this other thing? And it sounds like you're really answering to that.
You're able to really, you know, well one, you're seeing people for, for, for how they're showing up and who they are and having that be okay.
Sara-Louise: And you don't see much representation of different relationships. I think, um, I mean, I'm, I identify as bisexual, although I'm in a relationship with a man, and I would say that, um, we tend to see maybe the odd gay couple with becoming a bit better with trans people, non-binary people.
But how often do we see [00:16:00] a neurodivergent person with a neurotypical or, you know, several people in a relationship, something more polyamorous, ethical non-monogamy? I don't think we've yet had many sort of mainstream TV programs that really look at that could be an option if you fancy it. It's still very kind of this unipolar, heterosexual, you'll probably have children, you'll live under the same roof, you'll have a mortgage or you'll rent together.
Um, but you know, I personally, I really like my own space. I want my own bedroom if I live with someone and I've learnt that the hard way too.
Andrea: In having, having more options, like
Sara-Louise: Yeah, for sure.
Andrea: There are more options there, you can make it what you want and that's okay. You're it sounds like you got you both are also through the book giving ways that people can really do that.
And suggestions based on your lived experience and the experience that you have. Also, with being surrounded by, I'm going to guess, a lot of other people [00:17:00] like you.
Sara-Louise: Absolutely. And professionally and personally, so yeah, absolutely.
Andrea: Amazing. Wow. What a gift to the world this is. I am loving it. I can't wait to get my hands on a copy. And read it through.
Sara-Louise: I agree actually. I want to hold it as a book because I, reading it off a PDF has been challenging for me. Uh, so I'm looking forward to reading it in a proper book format.
Andrea: When can we, when can we get our hands on this? I cannot wait.
Sara-Louise: Bontle, over to you.
Bontle: Not too far from Valentine’s Day. So, uh, 16th of Feb is when it'll be available on Amazon.
We're doing a, both an ebook and a paperback version. So you can, if you want to experience the physical thing, or if you're more like me, put it on your Kindle and have a read of it there.
Sara-Louise: Yeah.
Andrea: Okay. So all of that will also be in the show notes. I did have another question or two for the both of you, if you're okay with it.
Bontle: Sure.
Andrea: Um, number one myth [00:18:00] that you would love to debunk about how neurodivergent women show up in lust, love, and lust, like, and love in the space of those. So Bontle, do you want to start?
Bontle: Uh, yeah, because I think there's a couple of them, um, which I find offensive is a strong word, but, you know, I'm not into them.
So the one is the manic pixie girl. So you’re being flighty and cute and a bit ditzy and you don't know what's going on and oh I'm so, and there's a lot of. Um, wonderful influencers in the ADHD space who, that's their whole thing about how chaotic it is to be married to them. But I certainly found that that was something when I was married that I really struggled with because it felt as though for a long portion of my marriage that my partner was still imagining this manic pixie girl who could not do anything for herself, who was not capable of making decisions, and so could be [00:19:00] sweeping in to rescue me because it was, you know, cute and fun that I was doing these things.
Uh, and that eventually was something that really wore at me, right. Uh, as, because I'm like, I'm an adult. I think the, the second big misconception is that somehow people should be able to physically see that you are neurodivergent. There's an expectation that an autistic person is mostly like a very sad looking, uh, boy child in front of a computer.
And, um, that's really not what we are. There's so many more dimensions to that. And there are black autistic people. And there are queer autistic people. And there are people like me who fit into all the buckets, and it's really great. But this idea that we are children or childlike, or it's a little bit cute when we try to date, because of course we're terrible at that.
Sara-Louise: Yeah.
Bontle: And I think it kind of discounts the fact that, honestly, we learn to be very [00:20:00] good at it. There is this misconception that autistic people don't understand any social cues, we have no idea what's going on, and I think it misunderstands the fact that we 100 percent spend all our energy into understanding what is happening, into being able to read people's emotions very quickly, into being able to decide what version of yourself this person wants you to be.
The only difference is, one, we truly don't think there's a point in doing this. It's completely irrational to us, but we're doing it because you expect us to make eye contact and smile and all these things. Sure, if that's what you need to be comfortable, we can do that. Uh, and two that it's not natural for us and in our natural state we might want to show up in different things but sometimes I feel as though I can't not smile because otherwise people will think oh yeah she's super autistic that's because she's autistic as opposed to like maybe I'm having a bad day.
Sara-Louise: Right, totally.
Bontle: Like smiling right and so flattening all our behavior into this must be because she is…
Sara-Louise: Yes.
Bontle: [00:21:00] ND is super weird. Uh, and if you thought about it in any other context, she must be like this because she's a Leo. That would be very strange, right? But we seem perfectly fine to do that with uh, ND women and that I find very frustrating.
Sara-Louise: Yeah, I can say that in my company, we have a corporate social responsibility project and smear testing. And the reason that is relevant is what I learned by interviewing, uh, ND people or ND, uh, women and their parents. Uh, cause a lot of them were living at home.
Um, was that um, there was a preconception that because they were autistic they weren't having sex so therefore maybe it followed that then people then thought well you won't need a smear test which A) is not true and B) uh it's not because you are neurodivergent that you wouldn't be having sex whoever whether you live independently or alone or whether you have a learning disability as well, uh, as being autistic, for example, or not, um, and, uh, I think that's really [00:22:00] dangerous because, um, that is, yeah, this idea that we live this very sheltered life and we're very pure and intact and we couldn't possibly be interested in something so, you know, racy.
Um, but the other thing I would like to get across is I feel that, um, there is a sort of generalized feeling that it can't really be that hard and we just should just snap out of it and crack on and not overthink it. And that really winds me up because I think a big part of being neurodivergent is hypervigilance and really, really struggling to adapt to another person's routine.
So for example, my partner and I had to talk really honestly recently, where I said, look, you know, you tend to like to turn up at two, which is really difficult for me, because around four, I have to nap until six, because I have a nine till three, three till six, I kind of nap, and six till late, I, I, I have like a second day, it's like in two halves.
And I said, by you turning up at two, [00:23:00] I'm dreading having to mask that I don't need to, not really sleep, but just close off and shut my brain off and then I'm hypervigilant that you think I could be sick or weak or boring or you know, you're turning up and I'm basically going, I'm going to go and have a break.
But that is my routine and just like his routine is I'm coming at two for his own rigid thinking ways because he's also neurodivergent, so when I have people around me who are maybe neurotypical, maybe just neurodivergent in a different way, or maybe they're not quite as introspective as I am, because I think there's also that in my personality, there's this kind of like, oh, just crack on, for God's sake, you know, it's all, it's hard for all of us dating, you know, the apps are difficult, uh, there's not that many good people out there, why has it got to be so much harder for you?
And I'm kind of like, if your partner said, I've got to be there at two and you have to absent yourself, I'm pretty sure you'd have a row and they'd be like, well, this is a waste of time. You're not focusing on me. Um, I don't turn up here for you to go to your [00:24:00] bedroom.
Like that does create arguments and it might sound like a small thing, but you know, I was having a panic attack over it, but luckily with my partner, I told him and he was like, oh, thank God for that. I've been meaning to tell you for ages that I can't leave my routine either. And I was also masking and needing to have a shutdown. So, um, yeah, I think it's just really important that we don't, if someone says something's hard, we should believe them.
It doesn't matter why they find it hard and just being like, oh, don't overthink it, you know, you'll, you'll be fine. You'll meet someone, you've got loads going for you. And it's like, that's not what I'm saying.
Bontle: I think also that people say that because they, on some level, think that it's a personality trait.
Sara-Louise: No, totally, yes.
Bontle: That neurodivergence is in my personality. So, I remember once being in, um, a situation on a date where I was talking to someone about being autistic and what that might mean for our relationship, and he went, don't worry, you don't have to be autistic around me. And I was like, what? But [00:25:00] in his mind, it's a thing you can dial up and down because there's an element of choice in it.
People think of neurodivergence as a mental health challenge, or a mental health topic, or something about psychology, when it really isn't. It's entirely about the structure of your brain and the functioning of your brain. There are chemical differences. There are structural differences and functioning differences.
Sara-Louise: It's a neurotype. I mean, it's, yeah.
Bontle: We have enough research and data to verify that it's not a TikTok trend and that if I, believe me, if I could have an easier life where I was not forced to see this world, I would 100 percent choose that, but I can't. And so it's a piece of, I won't stop overcomplicating things or I, you know, won't get better at time management or remembering dates or any of those things. I just can't.
Sara-Louise: Yeah, for sure. I also had a really, well, I've had, I think we will all, when you're neurodivergent, have had weird reactions. I've been told you can't be autistic, you look too nice in your cocktail [00:26:00] dress when I was at my friend's launch party. Um, and I also had one where I said, uh, I just connected on hinge.
And we were like messaging and I just sort of said, look, cause I was in that phase where I was like, do you put it on your profile? Do you mention it straight off the bat? Do you wait till you see if you like each other? And I, in that particular moment, I just wanted to be like, look, I'm neurodivergent and everything.
And he just sort of went like, literally we connected, we barely knew what each other looked like. And he was like, oh, I'm guessing that doesn't really impact you though. Right. And then he could just crack that. I just disconnected. I was like. What is the limit of your presumptuousness?
Andrea: Yeah, what I'm hearing is that there is a world full of people like me who are quite ignorant and don't really know much about how your world is. And that in that space, there's a lot of misunderstanding. There's a lot of need for, [00:27:00] for acceptance and also acknowledgement. And, um, um, affirmation that this is how you are.
It's different. We all gotta learn here because it's how you are. And it's, it's, people have, there is so much diversity in the world, and when we can't open up to it, and we all have blinders and we all have blind spots, all the rest of it, even those of us who are, you know, doing their best to, it's all still there.
How can we be with each other so that we learn from each other, and so that we can enjoy the difference in a way, and there's so much to learn. It feels like there's so much to learn.
Sara-Louise: There is.
Andrea: And so much to love, and so much love that you also have to share and give and that a lot of that's getting missed.
Sara-Louise: Yes, for sure.
Andrea: And media tropes that aren't helpful and all of the rest of [00:28:00] it. So this book sounds like it's one of the bridges. It's going to be a powerful bridge to help people who are also neurotypical and interested in learning more about humans. And I can also, like I say, I haven't read it. So I can't say this is what it's done for me. But I would grab a copy and see how might this also help me in dating?
Or how might this also help me in relationships? Or how might this also help me in sex? Because It's offer up different ways of being.
Sara-Louise: Exactly. A neurodivergent perspective.
Andrea: Yeah, a different perspective. Yeah.
Sara-Louise: Because we're very good I think at articulating when we're neurodivergent and we've worked on ourselves and we've had the requisite therapy, et cetera. I think we're very good at articulating being ND and in our case, we also work with ND people in, in a sex coaching and relationship and therapy, uh, kind of perspective. Um, but I think that, um, I've lost my thread. Sorry
Bontle: Um, I think that there is a…
Sara-Louise: I’m super ADHD today. Sorry, I’m not normally this way.
Bontle: Um, I think that it's also something which is, uh, important to us as we call it the ND lovers club, because we wanted to bring in the dynamic of, there is, uh, being a neurodivergent lover,
Sara-Louise: Yeah.
Bontle: but then also being a neurotypical person who loves neurodivergent people, and that may not be in a sexual or romantic way, that may be as friends, and trying to understand more about them through that process is, is helpful, right, and we think it's, it's beneficial, but we happen to have the experience of being a coach and a therapist in the space who interact with people in the space, but what I don't want people to think is that we expect everyone to become an expert, you know, we know we're in the minority, and we're really, we wanted to show neurodivergent women as well that they also don't need to be experts, but here's some stuff that might actually [00:30:00] help you understand yourself a little bit better, because we're all learning about what this means, right?
There is not yet enough for us to understand exactly how all of our neurodivergence works. Unfortunately, there hasn't been a lot of research, especially for women, right? So like with all other fields of medicine, women are always the last ones who are looked at in this particular area. Um, but we think that there is real value in being able to say, let's start the conversation, not somewhere that is, uh, super simple, not from a place of judgment, not from a place of we're going to be too serious or preach to anyone or tell them you definitely should see us in this way, but just a place of openness and authenticity.
Andrea: And light-heartedness and fun. I'm getting that as well.
Bontle: Fun, yes.
Sara-Louise: But also, you could be a neurodivergent person in a relationship with a neurodivergent person who manifests, whose [00:31:00] traits manifest very differently. Or you could be someone who thinks, well, I want to live my truth and I want to do this in a neurodivergent way.
But you could be with an ND person who is kind of maybe despite themselves determined to do the neurotypical thing and you can have a discussion about look why are we falling into this trope when actually we don't have to and you know so some nd people would maybe rather not be nd or would rather just follow you know the the the status quo and i think it also raises the possibility of not having to do that or doing it if that makes life easier for you and you're happy to do that that's also an option
Bontle: Yes.
Andrea: There are options.
Sara-Louise: Oh yeah, that's, if you're going to come away from the book with anything it's knowing there's options and actually we could, well, I couldn't visualize many when we started writing the book and I was even a bit like, should we be writing this? Like, are we not meant to have all the answers? Um, and while we have a lot of open mindedness and relating and [00:32:00] suggestions, we don't at any point claim to have the prescription because it's a personalized thing and it's definitely about designing it, as you said.
Andrea: And I love how you have said that this is the beginning of a movement. And as with all movements, where many, I'm not going to say, you know, blanket, blanket it, but with many movements, there is community that grows from it and togetherness grows and the beginning of something then develops into something more.
So thank you both for being pioneers and in the space and taking these first incredible steps. And it feels like such a book of service, such a book of fun and pleasure. I can't wait to get my hands on it. And I've already wanted to have you both back on again after I've read it to dive deep into the details of the lust and the love, and all of it.
So, um, thank you both so much for your time today. [00:33:00] Um, how can people get in touch with you? What is the best way if they want to connect or learn more about the book or just bookmark it or, um, learn about your practices because I know you're both practicing. Um, what are the best ways to be in touch?
Bontle: Well, ironically, I think we both actually spend more time on LinkedIn than anything else.
Sara-Louise: Yes, actually.
Bontle: Our LinkedIn’s are very un-LinkedIn like because there's a lot of stuff on there that has nothing to do with professional stuff. And Sarah talks a lot about her neurodivergence, I talk about neurodivergence applied in some of my other work in corporate.
Sara-Louise: Yep.
Bontle: So LinkedIn probably is the best place to reach us. But we also, uh, will have a website for this book, uh, builttodiverge.com, um, which will have some more information about reaching us on all the places you can reach us. And I'm still trying to convince Sarah that our next book should be about kink. So that will also be on that website.
Sara-Louise: Yeah.
Bontle: [00:34:00] I will be trapping her into writing this book, so. But yeah, if you want a direct line to us, DM us on LinkedIn, considering, you know, the other spaces are not really as safe anymore for diversity as they once were. So it's quite strange that a space of, you know, uh, late stage capitalism is the place we feel safest.
Andrea: Yeah. I've loved LinkedIn as well for that too, because yeah, censorship in the other places is rampant. And I found LinkedIn is actually much more tolerant.
Sara-Louise: Interesting.
Andrea: Yeah, really.
Bontle: Oh, I find the opposite actually. And I like the opposite because I think that sometimes, uh, these platforms are becoming more and more tolerant. And while I believe people are entitled to their own opinions about things, we shouldn't, uh, mistake opinion with fact.
And I think a lot of places, people are sharing what they think as though it's like, there is evidence behind this, et cetera. And [00:35:00] I'm going, that's not a thing. And so I quite like the people on LinkedIn are a little bit more open to being able to express that this is a preference rather than the truth.
Sara-Louise: Yeah.
Andrea: Okay. Everything will be in the show notes, all the links, all the ways to connect. Buy that book. It sounds incredible. I am going to be the first to click. Yes, me please. Um, and would love to see you both again, uh, after I've read it.
Sara-Louise: We'd love to, thank you.
Bontle: Yeah.
Andrea: Thank you.
Thank you for listening. Share this podcast with anyone you feel would benefit from its message. If you love what you heard, rate and review us wherever you listen. And if you feel that you could use some support, connect with me, Andrea Balboni, [00:36:00] through my website, lushcoaching.com. That's L U S H C O A C H I N G dot com.
Special thanks to Nicholas Singer for the musical score and Dion Knight for editing and production. [00:36:18]